OrganicAthlete: Tell us about your athletic background and how you got started in bodybuilding.

Charlie Abel: I got started because I was small for my age as a teenager. And the coaches gave us weightlifting for wrestling and part of physical education, and the weights just felt like home. I ended up quitting high school sports so I could go home and lift weights in my garage when I was 15.

OA: And you competed at an early age as well?

CA: No, not in bodybuilding; not until I was about 20. I was too young in high school and afterwards I went right in the Marines. I started competing when I moved back to Sonoma County and joined a gym in Rohnert Park [in California]. Back then there weren't a whole lot of gyms. It was kind of a new thing.

OA: Describe your transition to becoming a raw fooder. Why did you decide to do it? How long did it take?

CA: Well, I probably would have started eating raw earlier had I known about it but it was a discover-as-you-go sort of thing I stumbled upon by accident. I heard Dr. Doug Lisle speak and he made a very convincing argument [for a vegan diet]. So I was vegan for a couple of years, and I thought I was doing everything I could that was healthful. But then you read one book and it refers to another. So I was a cooked food vegan for two years. And then once I learned about raw it took me a couple of months to decide to do it. And I do things as an experiment to see how it works and as long as it keeps working and I feel good I keep doing it. And raw worked really well.

OA: So you've been raw now for?

CA: Almost 3 years.

OA: And your transition was it hard?

CA: The transition was easy, really, because I was a cooked food vegan. Actually it was more of a transition from a standard American diet to a cooked food vegan diet. Because when I stopped meat I got a little red rash on my arm for a little bit. That lasted a day or two. And I got a white coated tongue and little headaches. But when I went from cooked food vegan to raw I had none of that.

OA: As far as bodybuilding and weight training have you noticed any differences?

CA: No. I tried a McDougall diet years ago with no meat and protein and I didn't notice any difference. You're just as strong as ever. Right now, I'm in a unique position where I can compare my performance to dozens of clients. And I'm as strong or stronger than anyone on a standard American diet.

OA: You recently entered a bodybuilding contest. Tell us a little bit about this contest.

CA: I decided to do this contest because it had been 24 years since I won my last bodybuilding contest. So now I'm twice as old so it's an age-ego thing. And this contest was steroid tested, so it's 100% natural. And that's one of the reasons I quit competing years ago [when steroid testing did not take place]. Also I wanted to document my progress and see if I could maintain the same amount of muscle at twice the age as well as how I would do building muscle on a raw food diet in my own little laboratory.

OA: What did you find? Would you prepare differently on a raw food diet?

CA: Well, given more time - I decided to do the contest just a couple months before - I would have prepared a little longer. I did come in 6lbs lighter than at age 24, but I think given more time and what I know now I think I can exceed that.

OA: When you read the bodybuilding magazines, you read a lot about getting enough protein. I've read about people consuming 150-200 grams of protein in a day. What do you think about that?

CA: Some people eat 300 or 400 grams of protein a day! I think it came about because the public believes what they read and they don't check the facts. And it's all about profit for all these bodybuilding magazines which are nothing more than product catalogs. And the articles are contrived. It's about profits. And my research has shown, conclusively, that I'm as strong or stronger than anyone eating all that meat on a standard American diet. And when you point this out to people, it's disbelief- they don't believe it. They don't have an answer. Because basically they've never done any research on their own. All they know is what they've heard from the media and the meat and dairy industries.

OA: You're also a student of Natural Hygiene. What is that about? Why is that important to you?

CA: Natural Hygiene is the study of the conditions that promote health and prevent disease. And eating raw foods is just a part of that. But there's exercise and sleep and all that sort of thing. But studying Natural Hygiene kept me on track. I notice a lot of people try raw foods and they don't know much about it. But knowledge is the key and once you know all the reasons why not to eat meat and why not to eat dairy and how to eat properly you stick with it. You're not going to go back. It's like people knowing the reasons not to smoke, but they view meat as not really all that bad for you. But once you know all the things about it, it's pretty bad.

OA: In your experience as a personal trainer, are people open to this information about raw food or changing their diet?

CA: Some people are and unfortunately a lot aren't. It's just sad. I have one client who has bad shoulders and they hurt. And he goes to the doctor and the doctor tells him he doesn't have a lot of cartilage in there. And the doctor tells him to stop working out. So I tried to talk to him about diet, and he doesn't even want to hear it. So some people are not open to it, but other people are open and ready for it. So it's slowly gaining momentum. There's a lot of resistance as far as traditions. And as people get older they get more set in their ways. I've heard more teenagers are into vegetarianism and veganism. And older people are more set in their ways.

OA: And if you have clients who do start changing their diet, do you notice a difference in how they respond to training or weight loss?

CA: Yes, fortunately there are a few clients who are open minded enough and they accept it and they go for it. And they do great and they're very thankful. They have more energy. They feel better. And their training goes great because they have more energy. And everything just starts working better. And they want to tell everybody about it. But some people listen and others don't. But what's neat about it is that since I've started, you know, I'm frequently under the impression that no one wants to hear what I've got to say and everyone is going to reject it, but when I look around I've got two trainers that accepted it and a couple of their clients. So I think quite a few people end up getting the message. And that makes you feel good.

OA: Talk a bit about your training and how you prepare. What sort of method do you use for training?

CA: There's a couple of schools of bodybuilding. Conventional which teaches more is better and that leads to long workouts - 2,3,4 hours a day. And I like high intensity training where basically you go as hard as you can and fatigue the muscle as deep as you can in as short a time period as you can and get in and out of the gym in less then 30 minutes twice per week. There's lots of convincing books that have before and after pictures, so it's been around. It's just that it's not real popular because it's really hard. You've got to push if you're going to do it. But if you do it right it's real productive. So that's what I've always done. I like working out really hard.

OA: What do you think about supplements?

CA: Bodybuilding is hard work. And everyone is looking for an edge. And because of that, people are gullible and open to magic pills and any trick that will put them ahead. And that's why they're also prone to steroids. Years ago I did research on myself, even when I was eating a standard American diet, when I was eating tons of supplements versus zero supplements I didn't really notice any difference. And I know one was a lot cheaper. But I think they're totally unnecessary. I've seen bodybuilding vegans; they're still concerned about getting protein. That protein thing is so big, and I find that that's totally unnecessary. Here I am entering a bodybuilding contest on a diet of mostly fruit.

OA: So the trick is then hard work and a healthy diet and healthy living.

CA: Right. If you don't send the muscles the signal to change by overloading them, no amount of food or eating is going to put muscle on your body. It's something done at the cellular level, you have to do it by exertion.

OA: What's your diet like?

CA: Mostly fruit. I've experimented with greater amounts of nuts just like many people do when they first go raw. And it really slowed me down and made me sluggish. And right now, I eat 1/10 cup of nuts everyday, and I change to a different nut everyday for variety. But 1/10 cup of nuts is it, the rest is fruit and a lot of greens to go with it.

OA: You're going to be speaking at OrganicAthlete's conference in September. What are you going to talk about there?

CA: How to put muscle on the human body on a raw food diet. And how to do it properly and get the best results in the shortest amount of time. I'll tell people all the mistakes that I've gone through, so they don't have to do that.

Charlie's Website